# Payment account age **URL:** \ **Category:** Site Feedback\ **Created:** [November 7, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679 "2019-11-07T18:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tieck](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/tieck/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@tieck](https://bisq.community/u/tieck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/1 "2019-11-07T18:13:58Z")
It is really unfortunate that the creation date of the account is no longer displayed. _Signed date_ and _creation date_ are two separate metrics whereas the latter has been established and has been around for a long time. The account creation date was THE METRIC to find a trader that has been on the platform a long time. “Not signed” sounds very bad, but “Account created 700 days ago, but not signed” would be trustworthy. It is unfortunate to reassign the meaning of the term _Payment account age_. Bitcoin also has two fields for the old and the new transaction id: txid vs. hash Please show BOTH dates. ---
**Author:** ![sqrrm](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/sqrrm/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@sqrrm](https://bisq.community/u/sqrrm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/2 "2019-11-07T19:11:02Z")
A mix of the two ages is now used. Signed age is used for buying using risky methods, and to become a signer, most other methods still use the account age. I think the difference hasn’t been made completely clear everywhere since the concepts are now so mixed. I agree it’s not great. ---
**Author:** ![ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/zerotax/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/u/ZeroTax)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/3 "2019-11-07T19:14:23Z")
Hoped this was a bug to be fixed. “Age not known” or same as “Time since signing” on SEPA. Incorrect and/or redundant. Very ugly. @sqrrm Could you please explain better why not account age always can display when the account was created? It doesn’t make sense to change it. ---
**Author:** ![takagari](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/takagari/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@takagari](https://bisq.community/u/takagari)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/4 "2019-11-09T19:13:07Z")
I have too agree From what I gather, for my OLD account with multiple transactions. and Zero issues. Is not signed To become signed I need to make a deal with a signed person. Presently the only signed account I could sell too is at an 8.5% rake on the price. That’s a damned joke and is essentially “you want a check be ready to pay b\*tch” Where as before this update I had an old account that at least gave it credibility. Unless I misunderstand this. I’m unaware of how to get my account signed. And I agree, the “age of account” no longer being showed is really annoying as I never sold to young accounts before. Now I have NO IDEA if they are seasoned or a brand new throw away scam account! ---
**Author:** ![ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/zerotax/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/u/ZeroTax)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 8:24am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/5 "2019-11-10T08:24:41Z")
We understand now that account signing is a flaw on security. Fixing this wont help. ---
**Author:** ![tieck](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/tieck/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@tieck](https://bisq.community/u/tieck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/6 "2019-11-10T09:20:59Z")
As I understand this message: > [@\[New v1.2.1\] "Bank Account Signed by an arbitrator" - Can arbitrators see our account info?](https://bisq.community/t/new-v1-2-1-bank-account-signed-by-an-arbitrator-can-arbitrators-see-our-account-info/8622/8): > > That was an oversight. Next version it will have the account age back. the fact that the the creation date is not displayed is a bug that will be fixed. But it is true in a free market the Latin proverb _caveat emptor_ applies, but in order to do so many metrics have to be available. Some may be attacked by sibyl attacks, but probably not all at once and it is in the responsibility of the participants to be prudent in the decision making. Taking away one of the best established metrics (former account age) and replace it if a new not tested one, was a centralist act, that must be amended. Maybe it was a democratic process within the DAO, but Bitcoin is not democratic, because this decision applies coercion to the existing users and they are disadvantaged; democracy is coercion. Bisq and the DAO are a social experiment and we should learn from this mistake. ---
**Author:** ![ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/zerotax/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@ZeroTax](https://bisq.community/u/ZeroTax)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/payment-account-age/8679/7 "2019-11-10T14:42:50Z")
> Maybe it was a democratic process within the DAO, but Bitcoin is not democratic, because this decision applies coercion to the existing users and they are disadvantaged; democracy is coercion. I am afraid Bisq is soon a very small and closed mob.