# Seller security deposit **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [February 6, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367 "2021-02-06T19:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/1 "2021-02-06T19:16:42Z")
Sorry, I would like yet another clarification. A friend is trying to sell her 0.006 Bitcoins and she is unable to post her offer to sell because it asks for a little more than that same amount as security deposit. I have not been able to help her because personally I have never sold Bitcoin on Bisq, but only purchased. So I turn to you: what is the point of having to deposit more than the entire sum you want to sell as a security deposit? She actually loaded those 0.006 Bitcoins to her Bisq, she doesn’t have any others. Finally, I do not understand the need to have to ask to charge the security deposit even to those who are selling their Bitcoins: what risk will those who buy Bitcoins ever run? I don’t understand… Could someone explain to me? ---
**Author:** ![jonathon](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/jonathon/32/2553_2.png) [@jonathon](https://bisq.community/u/jonathon)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 12:17am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/2 "2021-02-07T00:17:03Z")
The security deposit is exactly 0.006 BTC. The reason for that is to make sure that every Peer acts honest and doesn’t try to scam other Peers. Risk for the buyer: Seller isn’t honest and claims that he didn’t receive the FIAT payment. Risk for the seller: Buyer isn’t honest and doesn’t pay or chargebacks the FIAT payment. ---
**Author:** ![Pazza](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/pazza/32/2703_2.png) [@Pazza](https://bisq.community/u/Pazza)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/3 "2021-02-07T00:30:04Z")
Security deposits are an important part of Bisq to make sure the trade is completed successfully. 0.006 BTC is the minimum security deposit amount needed. [https://bisq.wiki/Security\_deposit](https://bisq.wiki/Security_deposit) ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/4 "2021-02-07T09:01:52Z")
But in the event that the seller dishonestly claims that he has not received the fiat payment, couldn’t the buyer simply provide proof of payment (through PageSigner)? ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 9:08am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/5 "2021-02-07T09:08:01Z")
It was not clear to me why, even if you set a value other than the default security deposit value, it would still return to 0.006 BTC once you try to finish the purchase offer publication procedure. But now thanks to your answer and your link (which I had not found), it is clear to me. Thanks so much! ---
**Author:** ![Pazza](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/pazza/32/2703_2.png) [@Pazza](https://bisq.community/u/Pazza)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/6 "2021-02-07T23:01:23Z")
> [@Bisca](#): > > But in the event that the seller dishonestly claims that he has not received the fiat payment, couldn’t the buyer simply provide proof of payment (through PageSigner)? Yes, but without a security deposit everyone could try this. By using the security deposit if the seller behaves dishonestly they risk losing their security deposit and the buyer will get both the trade amount and the sellers security deposit. ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 6:38am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/8 "2021-02-12T06:38:02Z")
I deleted because I realized I wrote a shit. So I would like to ask you one last question: why are you asking whoever announces the BTC sale offer to also load the security deposit? Let me explain: wouldn’t it be enough to have the entire BTC amount of the transaction loaded in advance in the multisignature wallet? What is the downside of doing this? The minimum safety deposit of 0.006 creates a lot of inconvenience for those who just want to be able to sell their Bitcoins (not to mention the fact that now the fiat value of 0.006 is definitely too high). Is there really no way to risk Bitcoins from an unethical seller, without having to charge more BTC at all regardless? ---
**Author:** ![MnM](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/mnm/32/257_2.png) [@MnM](https://bisq.community/u/MnM)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 10:00am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/9 "2021-02-12T10:00:35Z")
A buyer could not pay, a seller could unnecessary delay the release of BTC or even try to cheat saying that he did not receive any payment. Buyers and sellers need to put up the security deposit, otherwise it would be free for them to try to scam the other part. ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2021, 10:50am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/10 "2021-02-12T10:50:58Z")
Okay, okay, I give up 🙂 Thanks for the clarification! ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:29am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/11 "2021-02-19T04:29:54Z")
Excuse me, I know, I’m getting boring. However, the more I continue to use Bisq, the more ridiculous the security deposit amount seems to me. Lately I’ve been using Bisq to buy Bitcoins for family and acquaintances, who want to buy it for very small amounts. Not wanting to personally risk my Bitcoins by using them as a security deposit for them, I try to do something else… What seems quite ridiculous to me is the fact that if someone wants to sell or buy € 50.00 in Bitcoin he must already own and put around € 255.00 at the current exchange rate as a security deposit. Doesn’t that seem too much? I understand that this amount (of 0.006 BTC) was decided in the past when it was actually an adequate amount for a transaction, but now it is far too much. Couldn’t this amount be adjusted? Couldn’t it be adjusted to the current exchange rate? Or even better, couldn’t be established in relation to the amount of the single transaction (15%, for example) and not independently of it? Now 0.006 is a big amount to invest, especially if dedicated only to the security deposit of a transaction that maybe a guy who wants to invest only his only € 50.00 in something as valid as BTC. Except that right now Bisq is very inaccessible for this target of people (which by the way I think they are not even few), so he is forced to turn to a traditional exchange and this is very sad. ---
**Author:** ![MnM](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/mnm/32/257_2.png) [@MnM](https://bisq.community/u/MnM)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/12 "2021-02-19T09:59:34Z")
> [@Bisca](#): > > Couldn’t it be adjusted to the current exchange rate? Or even better, couldn’t be established in relation to the amount of the single transaction (15%, for example) and not independently of it? This is interesting. The min security deposit was introduced because leaving only 5€ as security deposit was considered too small for people to even matter. I think that, given that changing the min security deposit is not a simple change parameter task, removing the min security deposit makes sense. > > > \> \_This is a Bisq Network proposal. Please familiarize yourself with the \[submis…sion and review process\](https://docs.bisq.network/proposals.html).\_ > > BTC price has increased drastically in the past months, causing many annoyances to Bisq limits. \*\*I propose to halve all those limits to make the limits closer to its original fiat values and make them work as intended.\*\* As prices for this proposal could be too influenced by volatility, I will be using a 30.000USD instead of the current price of ~40.000USD. > > !\[imagen\](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50149324/104708644-439e1100-571e-11eb-8e2a-e4c0479640cd.png) > > > This proposal could be divided into 2 or 4 parts, but I think it's better to keep it together at least until we concrete the pros and cons of each measure: > > \#### Max limit to buy BTC for unsigned accounts and min security deposit. > Min amounts for security deposit and max buying limit stopped potential traders from \[onboarding Bisq\](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinCA/comments/kxm9zc/bisq\_001btc\_escrow\_amount\_500\_cad/). > 1. \*\*Min amount for security deposit is 0.006 BTC (180 USD)\*\*. The goal of this lower limit is to make the security deposit big enough to not make it irrelevant to just lose the security deposit if a trader doesn't attend to it. New amount would be \*\*0.003 BTC (90USD)\*\* but I find many good reasons to make it even lower, like being able to buy the necessary first BTC at an ATM or make it easier and less risky for market makers at the new Keybase group at #283. > 2. \*\*Max buying limit for unsigned traders is 0.01 BTC (300USD)\*\*. The goal of this limit is to reduce chargeback risk for unsigned accounts. We thought that 180USD was too high in a past proposal (#95 and at that time that was total limit for any buy). Reducing it to \*\*0.005 BTC (150USD)\*\* should be a no brainer. The only con is that with current blockspace prices the total amount on mining fees for 0.005BTC trades is very high. > > \#### Max trading limits > 3. \*\*Trading limit for fiat\*\* payment methods is diverse, ranging from \*\*0.25BTC to 2BTC (7.500USD to 60.000USD)\*\*. I would halve all of them to \*\*0.125 to 1BTC (3.750 to 30.000USD\*\*. It's a good change for @pazza83 and growth team to rethink if some payment methods need to adjust the limits between this new ranges. > To show some examples, some of new limits would be: SEPA, Revolut, Zelle, USPSMO, Interac e-transfer, Amazon: 0.125 BTC > Transferwise, Faster Payments, F2F: 0.5 BTC. > 4. \*\*Trading limit for alts is \*\*2BTC (60.000 USD)\*\*. The goal of this limit is to protect the DAO and traders from loses in case something goes wrong. Anyway, what contained DAO loses at April's attack was security deposit, not trading limit. Alt trading is generally safe, and specially XMR traders complained some time ago that limits were low. Reducing this limit to \*\*1.5 BTC (45.000 USD)\*\* instead of 1BTC could be enough. > > Accepting this proposal would require that Growth team changes all wiki and docs, and announces them properly. Maybe a specific project would be needed. Still, the biggest hassle to 50 or even 100€ trades at Bisq is mining fees. All Bisq trades need 4 tx to be made onchain and the cost for every transaction grows with Bitcoin acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Bisca](https://bisq.community/letter_avatar/bisca/32/6_22734026db12803ebb3e059622ac3534.png) [@Bisca](https://bisq.community/u/Bisca)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 7:52am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/13 "2021-02-20T07:52:10Z")
I have read the discussion of your link and I deduce that I have nothing to add here because it is evident that the problem is already widely discussed by people much more prepared, reliable and trusted than me. Thank you again for the clarifications! ---
**Author:** ![Bokehman](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/bokehman/32/2366_2.png) [@Bokehman](https://bisq.community/u/Bokehman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/14 "2021-02-26T00:25:43Z")
I tried to open a discussion but it was closed and sent here. My question was \< **Why do the BTC seller need a security deposit since he’s already locking his BTC?** \> As for the buyer, it doesn’t matter how much BTC he’s buying. For the one who complained about buying $50 and needing a $250 security deposit; What if the buyer backpedal (like they do on LocalBitcoins)? A 50% penalty (only $25) is not enough to cover fees and the hassle. You shouldn’t use Bisq to buy such low quantities. And it’s the seller who sets the security deposit percentage. ---
**Author:** ![MnM](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/mnm/32/257_2.png) [@MnM](https://bisq.community/u/MnM)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/15 "2021-02-26T09:43:40Z")
> [@MnM](#): > > A buyer could not pay, a seller could unnecessary delay the release of BTC or even try to cheat saying that he did not receive any payment. > Buyers and sellers need to put up the security deposit, otherwise it would be free for them to try to scam the other part. The maker is the one who sets the security deposit percentage. [Security deposit - Bisq Wiki](https://bisq.wiki/Security_deposit) ---
**Author:** ![Bokehman](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/bokehman/32/2366_2.png) [@Bokehman](https://bisq.community/u/Bokehman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/16 "2021-02-26T14:45:41Z")
I understand the seller can also (try to) cheat but: If I’m selling 1 BTC (with 50% security deposit)… If I (seller) try to cheat, can the 50% be deducted from the 1 BTC I’m selling (and locked)? Unless the security deposit is bigger than the selling amount, I see no reason for having it. ---
**Author:** ![Pazza](https://bisq.community/user_avatar/bisq.community/pazza/32/2703_2.png) [@Pazza](https://bisq.community/u/Pazza)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://bisq.community/t/seller-security-deposit/10367/17 "2021-02-27T00:49:24Z")
If you are the seller of 1 BTC and put up a 50% deposit you have 1.5 BTC tied up in a multi-sig (1 BTC for the trade amount and 0.5 BTC for the security deposit). The buyer will have 0.5 BTC tied up in a multi-sig (0.5 BTC for the security deposit). If you try and cheat the buyer. Lets say you receive the fiat payment but do not release the BTC you stand to lose both your 1 BTC for the trade amount and 0.5 BTC for the security deposit. So you would end up 0.5 BTC worse off.