When I first loaded the software I tried to connect it to my trezor so that I could spend that BTC. I know the Trezor can’t take BCHC. This is what we tested. This doesn’t have to do with Bisq if Bisq wasn’t trying to send the BCHC to my Trezor.
The main problem is that when it came time to do the txn there was no confirmaiton nor way to confirm or determine where the BCHC went. If there was, I have a BCHC wallet, but I had no opportunitfy to supply this. Instead, it sent the coins into oblivion WITHOUT ASKING. ← which is a major issue with the software.
I feel like you’re being defensive rather than trying to solve the problem. The software is not perfectly fine and not doing everything I asked it to because it’s just taking my BTC and not giving me alts in return.
I don’t know @ManfredKarrer
Trezor. NOT working for BCHC not Bisq, but it doesn’t matter since Bisq gave me no choice. The software not verifying that the address it has for BCHC is an address for BCHC is an issue with the software not the coin. But I could supply a BCHC address if it gave me the option. An excellent time to give me that option woudl be at the time fo the transaction.
Did you know that to send that BTC to Bisq I had to do seven different kinds of confirmation? to send it from Bisq into oblivion I not only didn’t have to do any, I was never given the chance to do any.
Peer 2 Peer software. Yes. Skype is peer to peer software, yet I can still contact people on the other end of the connection. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? All I’m saying is that it would have been very nice to be able to message the seller and say “don’t send to that address.” I was actually horrified that when the time came there was NOT such a feature, because it seemed obvious what was about to happen and there was not no way to stop it. Bisq was just autodriving off a cliff with my money, the sellers coins, by itself.
“If you are certain that you will not receive the payment, you can open a dispute by pressing alt+o.”
Okay, I just did that.
“There is no one to send you a test transaction other than another trader.”
Yes, exaclty there’s a seller. If this was local bitcoins, or ebay or craigslist or any direct person to person sales service there would be a communication and an arrangement for the txn. this isn’t an automated service because you don’t have wallets for the coins that you’re trading, so they go off into oblivion without guidance and there’s no way to guide them. You need human communication if this is going to work at all. As I said You’re going to get traders who are far less familiar with crypto than i am.
I can’t send a txn to myself in BCHC, I don’t have any. Now I’m out $600 and still don’t have any.
“As said previously, as far as I know, the address needs to be put in manually in Accounts screen.”
That maybe so. I entered this when I tried to set up my btc. Still, there was never any indication from the software that this was going to happen. A warning or reminder on the screen, and any options at all to do anything at alll anywhere would have been nice. Like “Confirm that this coin is going to this address.” Yes, that would have been nice, and if the information is wrong, a chance to correct it. Instead, it didn’t tell me coins were going to a BCH wallet until it actually had already sent them to the BCH wallet.
Basically what this amounts to is my first sign that anything could possibly go wrong or for me to do anything about it was a message that might as well have said “You’ve just been goxed!”
I was personally aware that something could go wrong, and assumed that the software would give me a place to specify a recipient address at some point before sending the coins. It did not.
“I am not sure what steps you are referring to, but it wouldn’t surprise me that Bisq as an decentralized exchange, doesn’t and can’t do some account verification steps.”
It could, for instance, confirm that I want to pay X BTC and want to receive Y amount of Z alt coin and that the BTC be sent to A address and that the alt be received to B address. That would be a nice confirmation. All steps should have all manners of confirmation and opportunities to chance all manners of information.
“This is by design, to mitigate social engineering attacks.”
Not sure you mean social engineering. I doubt socialism is going to take over your system. Maybe advertisers but unlikely. But if you don’t have wallets and coins on hand you’re going to need human communication. p2p software is not going to change anything about how business works. It’s not magic.
“we do get some people requesting this to be enabled.”
“Devs just seem to think that it would have bigger drawbacks than gains.”
It should be an option. If the seller says “No, I don’t want to be contacted” then simple. I don’t buy his coins.
“I don’t know what you mean by this”
Not being Finex. I mean finex is sitting there with a million bitcoins on hand and millions of alt coins. Your finex account already has wallets for all coins. They can automate everything because there will never be a question of whether or not they have the coins or they match the wallet. They’re not asking the humans to do anything. Ergo, they don’t need human communication. Localbitcoins does.
“Bisq is decentralized open source software that creates a P2P network between traders and never holds any funds.”
yes it’s obvious what it is. But it’s also not new tech. I mean, we all know how p2p software works and have all used it daily for decades.
“I assume you just took an offer that someone placed 1000 BCHC as a minimum.”
It was not clear that this is what was happening. You might want to clarify that in the software. It looked very much like the software was telling me that .05 btc was the minimum transaction on Bisq.
“Bisq doesn’t make any offers, this is completely done by users.”
I got that, but it doesn’t logically follow that it’s not making any requirements of txn size. Also, the fees are absurd. I bought 1000 BCHC at .00005 which should cost me .05. instead it cost me 0.0632184
That’s a 26.5% commission. That in itself is sufficient to call the service a scam.
You know what would be an acceptable amount? .050005. (okay, I’m using finex again, but you have to consider this is your competition. It’s not going to look any better if I use a different exchange.)
“Perhaps you uploaded a wrong image by mistake.”
yes, I did. I meant to upload the screen where it had clearly not sent the coins and was giving me only one option, which was to confirm that I had received them.
It’s possible I entered this address when I was first setting up the software. I’m unaware of doing so, But also, it’s not my BCHC wallet, it’s what I wanted to fund it with. Bisq told me it didn’t recognize my wallet and kept telling me I had no wallet installed in spite of the fact that I have several software wallets and a hardware wallet. The system not only failed to recognize that this was an inappropriate address it also did not warn me and gave me no chance to change it or even made me aware that it was headed here. I had a BCHC wallet to supply if it had asked.
“I personally think that as time goes by, people can only get more informed, but that is my opinion of course.”
It’s your opinion, but it’s not been the nature of any industry ever. Yes, there will be a higher % of the overall population who are more informed about crypto, but the average cryto buyer is definitely going to be less informed. The average internet user today seems vaguely aware of what a computer is. Compare that to the average internet user of the 1990s, who was probably a systems analyst. It’s always this way
“I still have my doubts that you understand how Bisq works”
Is it my job to understand how Bisq works? Do I need a psychic to interpret what the program wants me to do? I sort of think it’s the software’s job to tell me what it wants me to do, not the other way around. There’s no way I’m going to read it’s mind. Like that it’s about to transfer coins to a wallet I have on file, without a chance to select or alter or verify that, or back out of the txn if I think this is not okay. In fact there are a large number of things the software expects me to intuit that are far from intuitive.
“This part I don’t understand, as I am unfamiliar with BCHC and even Litecoin to bigger extent. Bisq should treat every altcoin trade more or less the same, even as fiat trades, as all of this happens outside of Bisq app. Bisq only deals with the base currency (Bitcoin by default), the rest is handled by traders outside of Bisq.”
Would be nice if it allowed the user to input a wallet addr at the time of txn that was appropriate. Nice if it recognized that it was not appropriate. Nicest if it had an appropriate wallet on file inside the system, like CryptoBridge does in its decentralized peer to peer exchange system.
“I am not sure what you are referring to, but Bisq treats these things very differently. As I said, it is not even aware of BCHC or any altcoin or fiat, it just forwards the information to where the payment needs to be sent from one trader (seller of BTC) to the other (buyer), so they can do this outside of Bisq.”
Okay, so the system is designed to take my btc, that was what I suspected. and at very high fees. Then it expects on good faith that users will send an alt coin to a wallet but there are not enough appropriate options to allow users to set this up, confirm it, test it, verify it and track these txns to make sure that it happens. We’re just given a button to say that we received the alt.
“Bisq is intended to work with users manually sending fiat and altcoins, if that is what you are referring to as not automated.”
then it needs user communication. Otherwise it just becomes inferior to competing services.
“Bisq will allow in the future an API so you can create your own programs that can send and receive payments and interact with offers and trades in Bisq”
Regular customers should notbe expected to program and API in order to make trades unless they are using bots. (future traders you get will not understand what either of us just said. They’ll be grandmothers. Don’t think so? Grandmothers use Skype and itunes now. They woudn’t have used their 1990s precursors ICQ and Napster.)
“but these two things will always be separate. They have to be, as Bisq is decentralized and can’t hold trader’s funds.”
CryptoBridge is decentralized peer2peer software and manages this one by having wallets in the software on your machine. You don’t have to do it that way, you can connect to outside wallets but then you need to verify or allow users to verify that this is happening instead of goxing, which is what is apparently happening.
“This is the case, as another user is sending it outside of Bisq app. a) only communication that seems to be needed is for the seller to provide an address for the buyer, but some people do feel differently.”
Lots of communication is necessary to verify that this is taking place and that it is being done well. As it is, the system supplied an address automatically regardless of whether I entered it when I was setting up the software. I didn’t enter it at the time of the txn and wouldn’t have since it’s not a BCHC addr.
also I woudl never send 1000 coins in one txn if I were doing it myself. I was given no choice.
“As long as you get your payment in the agreed time period, I don’t see what more information you would want or need.”
that’s just being unimaginitive to all the myriad things that could go wrong.
“As to whom, well Bisq is all about privacy.”
I meant addr. facepalm
“The whole problem seems to be that you seem to claim that you never created that BCHC account”
No, that’s a deflection away from the issue that your software goxed my bitcoin.