Delay BTC release for Fiat trades

As we cannot be sure that the stolen bank accout scammer is trying to extend to other reagions and payment methods I would suggest any BTC seller (Fiat) to delay the release of the BTC (confirmation of receipt). That will likely trigger disputes but the arbitrators will tolerate that in the current situation and a delay for the BTC payout can be decided on the the trade circumstances (account age of BTC buyer, trade price,…). We saw a few trades with suspicious high prices and that alerted us that the scammer might still be around and the currently blocked payment methods and regions might not be enough. As said we are working on protection tools but they require a bit more time for deployment. Until that please take extra care with tradeing Fiat on Bisq.

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Thanks for the heads-up Manfred! Just to clarify I think you meant BTC seller (Fiat) should not release the BTC not the BTC buyer as the buyer sends the fiat payment.

Yes, will correct it…

We saw further suspicious trade behaviour. So seems the scammer is still around… Might be false positives but better to be careful!

Maybe it’s just a newbie’s proposal but would a parallel 100% BTC deposit from buyer side with 2 of 3 multi-sig and long (few weeks) timelock be effective? This would allow to avoid BTC release delay in the fiat trade but still guarantee the seller against chargeback.
Actually can even avoid the multi-sig: can be a single-sig for Bisq without time constraints and timelocked single-sig for the buyer.

see Manfred’s last proposal which goes in this direction

Seems great minds think alike :wink:


People can register and do at the same day a trade without Verification and you expect that there won’t be any scammer around. I’ve got scammed on LBTC big amounts. Its really easy to reduce the Scammer by 99%

People need to register, do a small transfer, for example 1 Euro or 5 Euro on a Bank Account of Bisq Arbitrator or somebody in the Community with Reputation. The Receiver confirms that the Money arrive and from there on the Buyer need to wait 14 Days. After 14 Days he get the Limit of 100 Euro and than with every Feedback he get a additional Limit of 50 EUR

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then it will take you years to collect a decent amount of BTC. The general idea migh tnot be bad, but needs adjustments for the amounts

Optional bank account verification is a good idea. Increasing limits with time is also a good idea. And finally, a high security deposit (say 120% of the trade amount) with delayed release is also a good idea.

It’s best to combine all three.

I did today a bit research, and I don’t understand how it makes sense to steal Bankaccounts for a few hundred Euro. There is Mobile Tan, or Pushtan and a lot of other safety things. I’ve traded a long time on lbtc and got in contact there with chargebacks, but it NEVER happened to me that there war a 200 Euro Chargeback, just high Amounts like 2000/5000/10000 Euro. There are so many Bitcoin Exchangers where you can exchange with SEPA, Sofortueberweisung or something similar without any verification up to 500 or 1000 Euro and you get the money mostly same day. Even on localbtc are a lot of traders which dont want any verification under 500 Euro.

2 Years ago I’ve “investigated” a chargeback by myself which I had on localbtc. The result at the end was that the Buyer did the chargeback by himself… No stolen Account… People are using the SEPA System because its very very weak…

Sorry, but that’s complete nonsense. Scammer scam even for 10 Euro. I’m afraid to say that you are not credible at all.

We have cases with amounts as low as 87 EUR. How you “investigated” a case to find out that one scammed that way? Sounds very difficult if you are not working at the NSA…

because he did the same again and again. And I found a couple trades to which the same happen same Name just other Accounts over a Period for more than a year.

But im happy that you guys on Bisq now everything so much better.

That sounds very unlikely to me that one can repeatedly call the bank for doing a chargeback. You need to provide proof to the bank (police report) and if you repeat that they will quickly become very suspicious. Also it costs them much time and money and they would quit your account if you do that too often.
Sounds just like another attempt of you to manipulate readers about the real risk situation regarding scammers.

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