How long for UK 'National Banks' transfer?

1

Hi,

I just sold my first Bitcoins using this great program. The payment is said to have been made but nothing is showing at my bank after an hour or so now. Edit 1 day+ and counting

Does anyone from the UK have any experience of how long these things usually take?

I would ‘assume’ that the buyer would have used our ‘Faster payments’ service? In effect that should be instantaneous, although I know that there can be delays of a couple of hours for new payees? So, why a 4 day delay before you can send it to arbitration?!

But, anyway, if there is some other method of UK bank transfer, then I would prefer my option of selling to be Faster payments ONLY. (Think of this as a suggestion)

Thanks for any help

2

Welcome,

money transfer can take up to 4 days (think it’s SEPA). Faster payments can be used of course, which should be instant.

Faster Payments is on our map and was discussed a while ago. If I remember correctly it has the same chargeback risk as SEPA and therefore could be included in the payment methods.

If you can provide the necessary information like right now, there’s a chance it’s gonna be included in the next update (maybe even today or tomorrow).

Please provide the info below asap. I’ll quickly check the chargeback risk.

Chargeback risk
Duration
Fees
Mandatory data
Verifiable - (needs to show a single https:// page that proves you made a transfer)

3

I found a single case of a successful chargeback, even though Faster Payments claim it’s impossible. UK people seem to use it anyway and UK has lower risk than the US, so I’d be in favor of adding Faster Payments for UK.

4

Hi marc

When I was looking into methods of payment that had chargeback risks, I found one on some wiki page that had a scale from 0-10. Paypal of course being the worst. Faster payments (and other services that piggyback Faster payments such as Pingit) scored an 8. Apparently they can be reversed if the sender claims their account has been stolen, but they quoted it as generally pretty safe otherwise. Never had any issues with it here at all.

I’ve searched my browser history, but I can’t find the damn link though, sorry mate!

There are no fees for sending or receiving Faster payments. It has been in use in the UK for quite a few years now.

Paypal UK withdrawals also use it nowadays too.

I don’t understand the last part of your message? I use it all the time from online bank accounts to shift money back and forth to family. Minimum amount is £1.

You need some sort of proof of that?! I don’t understand.

5

Mandatory fields are the sections of a payment that MUST be filled out in order to make a payment, i. e. the information you need from your trade partner to make a payment.

Verifiable: The trade needs to be auditible, i. e. when you make a faster payment to a seller, and the seller claims he didn’t receive it, you’ll need to open a dispute in the Bitsquare cllient.
Then you need to prove to the arbitrator that you made the payment.

In Bitsquare that is done via TLSNotary. Basically, you log-in to your faster payments account and open a single page that proves that you made the payment. You take a cryptographically secure screenshot and send that to the arbitrator who can then judge who’s cheating and release the funds to the honest party.

I just heard back from Manfred, and Faster Payments won’t make it to the next release. So, we’re not in a hurry :slight_smile:

Thanks for your participation.

6

To make a Faster Payment the sender just needs a sort code and account number. Apparently the payee name is not required because the service relies on the sort code/ a/c number for uniqueness, which makes sense.

So, Mandatory Fields are Sort code and account number.

Verifiable: Hmm.
I would upload a vid of me logging into the account looking at the transaction history as a seller disputing non-receipt of payment, showing the list of transactions in and out of the account.

There should be a clear record of the incoming / outgoing payment.

I’ll upload an example (screenshot) from my wife’s Halifax account / my Barclay account showing the one I did earlier as an example. Will do that in an hour or so.

BTw, re: my original query I have subsequently had another ‘buyer’ for another Bitcoin transaction for a lower amount. That was an hour ago. 4 confirmations and the payment hasn’t even been started!

I’m not too pleased at this point with how things are working out.

Surely, I shouldn’t have to wait 4 days before a buyer INITIATES a payment after the funds are confirmed in the blockchain?! That’s crazy.

There should be a timeout of no more than an hour or so for that surely?

7

Don’t post your screenshots or video of your online banking. Just confirm here, that there is a page showing your info, the receiver’s info and the payment. The address of said page needs to start with https://

Original query: The other trader might be away from his keyboard or he might have forgotten to confirm that he started the payment. That’s not a problem, just a little annoying.

It’s not unusual for bank transfers to take a day or more (think of weekends) Banks are slow. Once faster payments is implemented, the time frame can be shortened.

8

There should be a timeout of no more than an hour or so for that surely?

Yup, in case of a BTC buyer taking an offer, I agree, such a time frame could be implemented. Bitcoin.de does that. I’ll keep it in mind.

9

Ok, well, there’s not much point in posting a screenshot anyway TBH.

On the Barclays account, the outgoing FP payment only shows a name reference and obviously the amount.

With the Halifax account that received the FP, there was a lot more reference number information (internal bank references), but absolutely NONE of it was a reference to the transaction details other than the name which doesn’t help tie that with the Barclays payment otherwise, and therein lies the easy possibility for scamming i.e.

The sender creates a new faster payment using their family’s or other bank account details, but using the Bitsquare reference as the name and just sends the money there! When it comes to arbitration, they just say ‘look, there’s the payment I made’. But that proves absolutely nothing!

I think it’s far easier in arbitration for the receiver to show that they have not received the money by the simple omission of it not in the recent transactions, but even there is another problem.

Say the seller sold quite a few identical Bitcoin transactions. How do you separate them out without some sort of unique ID again?

This looks a bit of a minefield, no?

The same thing obviously applies to SEPA or other payments.

Regarding my 2nd sale. It is now well over 2 hours since the original sale. That’s 2 hours AFTER the confirmation in the block chain, and they still have not even initiated the payment.

Overall, I haven’t received a penny yet.

Edit: Almost as soon as I’d posted this, the 2nd transaction status changed to show the sender had sent the payment. I checked the bank and the money was there! That’s how Faster Payments should work. Nice :slight_smile:

Why would ANYONE in their right mind use SEPA / CHAPS which they are charged a huge fee for using the exact same details they would for Faster Payments which are FREE and instant?

10

While FP has been around a couple of years, not all banks are up to speed. Personally, I think it would be a good idea if “National Bank Transfer” stated that the user must use FP because I wouldn’t want to wait 4 days… these things are meant to take up to two hours at most.

Btw, my first transaction, I sent with FP but it took several hours for the seller to confirm and release… but I wasn’t so worried, I just assumed they weren’t near their computer… I just wish there was a Bitsquare mobile app or a way to send alerts to my phone. It would be cool if Bitsquare could trigger a custom http call or send an email, I could then setup a tasker alert on my phone…

11

@Bitmaster Square

Yes, exactly, 4 days is a ridiculous amount of time to have to wait to resolve a Faster payments dispute. The more so when SEPA is actually a separate option anyway. :slight_smile:

Faster Payments have been in use since 2008 btw. I remember trying it out for the first time, sending £1 on one account and checking in the other to find it there straight away. Was amazing at the time with BACS payments taking 3 days. LOL

It’s now 9 hours since the guy has supposed to have paid. You can see it in the trades list actually. There aren’t that many. :wink:

How he actually paid or whether he really has paid at all remains a mystery.

12

A couple of months ago, a utility company owed me some money. Anything over £500 needed “approval” (takes days) and, conveniently, payments can take 5 working days because their bank doesn’t do FP… but I do think they could be lying / reluctant to let go of my money. :slight_smile:

13

Yeah, I’d say they’re lying too. :wink:

The max amount for single FP payments has been at least £100,000 for a while now.

But, not all banks use it, that’s true.

14

I’m kind of surprised they’d let anyone transfer £100K without a charge! My naivety is showing…

15

The banks that use FP, set their own internal limits on what the maximum amount is that you can send. Which is another scam by the banks. Don’t think any of them will actually let you send 100K. :slight_smile: EDIT: Well, Co-Op, Citibank and Santander do apparently.

e.g. Want to send more than £10,000? Sorry it has to be sent via CHAPS, which funnily enough has a hefty fee etc. Gotcha…

16

I will add Faster Payments for the upcoming release.
Sort number nad account nr. are the only required fields, right?
Holder name is not required, right?
I set the max. trade period to 1 day.

Any feedback highly appreciated as I plan the release soon.