[New v1.2.1] "Bank Account Signed by an arbitrator" - Can arbitrators see our account info?

The new version 1.2.1, Existing accounts require signing by an arbitrator, which happens automatically after first run.

This prompts the question, can arbitrators see the bank account info of the user if they have signed it?

Not correct. In new version 1.2.x existing accounts don’t require any signing, like they didn’t before. Optional account signing for high risk account types will lift per trade buy limits to more than 0.01 BTC. Before 1.2, this limit couldn’t be lifted.

Account signing was done to an initial set of accounts that matched certain requirements, unrelated to bank account information. From now on, all users with already signed account will sign other accounts buy completing trades.

Im trying to say that on one of my existing accounts as soon as i updated to 1.2.1 from 1.2.0, i saw a popup on one of my existing fiat accounts and said “signed by an arbitrator”.

can arbitrators see the bank account info of the user when they signed it?

Can anyone that knows answer my question please… @Homard or anyone?

Would “signed by arbitration” be more correct? When automatic, not manual.

The arbitrators signed accounts of previous disputes where they were the arbitrator, and thus could verify that there was a trade and both parties acted in good faith.

What the arbitrators sign is the accountAgeWitness of the involved parties in the dispute. This is a hash of the account info + salt, meaning that it’s not possible to get the account information from the accountAgeWitness.

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thanks @sqrrm now that makes sense.

So why did the age of the account info disappear? absolutely nothing shows how old the seller or buyer is, if it’s a brand new account or old account? I have maybe 50+ trades with zero issues and I’m unsigned and on an undated account now?
This seems like a step backward for security honestly.

That was an oversight. Next version it will have the account age back.

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Good to hear :slight_smile:

P.S. This also relates to this thread Payment account age

Okay…
But my rather old account with a lot.of trades is not signed.
And from I gather I need to find someone signed to trade with to get signed?
No one signed is buying. The one I did see had an outrageous rate.
So they can sell their signature if I want it. Or I’m out of luck?

This whole system thus far. From my understanding. Is a.crock

Actually this account signing mechanism is false security. It adds no protection.They must have misjudged it.

Agreed, Showing the age of the account AND a number of successful trades would at least give the other party some confidence.

Yes total number of trades and account age makes a reputation that indicates trust. Also limit raise could be triggered instantly on a combination of account age and number of trades per payment account, as an automated criteria for trust (“PoT”). Number of trades * account age > N. The score can be displayed for self tracking. I think its the best that can be done. It is impossible to guarantee that chargebacks can occur. Hope the guys realise soon that account signing without KYC is totally without hope (useless).

PoT = Proof of Trust

Sorry, even with KYC, for E-transfers in Canada for example. They can be reversed if the person claims account hacking. Even if you have their ID. It’s a crap system regardless. However a KYC process would if done correctly, allow arbitrators to tie accounts together and hopefully ban all bad accounts and stop future ones from being opened. So it may be a solid option, But security of clients details becomes a very big concern at that point.

Yes fiat transfer can always be reversed. That’s why you shouldn’t shoot your own foot with account signing.

Adding KYC goes against the Bisq philosophy so that’s not likely to happen.

The point of the web of trust built with account signing is to add some extra confidence to the fiat trading. It’s in particular a protection against stolen bank account scams. Someone that comes into possession of a stolen bank account has a need to empty the account as quickly as possible and that’s not doable with the account signing. No trading is risk free however. You bank with a centralized exchange and they hold all your personal data and your coins, you trade face to face and there are physical risks. You use Bisq with bank transfers, then they can be reversed. However, it is in general not that easy for an account holder to reverse a transaction they did themselves and it’s now a easier to weed out the stolen bank accounts.

@sqrrm
Please explain what extra protection account signing give on stolen bank accounts that account age isn’t already doing?

One single trade onsigning the trusted web and you are ready to go same as before.