Sorry, I would like yet another clarification.
A friend is trying to sell her 0.006 Bitcoins and she is unable to post her offer to sell because it asks for a little more than that same amount as security deposit. I have not been able to help her because personally I have never sold Bitcoin on Bisq, but only purchased.
So I turn to you: what is the point of having to deposit more than the entire sum you want to sell as a security deposit? She actually loaded those 0.006 Bitcoins to her Bisq, she doesn’t have any others. Finally, I do not understand the need to have to ask to charge the security deposit even to those who are selling their Bitcoins: what risk will those who buy Bitcoins ever run? I don’t understand… Could someone explain to me?
Sorry, I would like yet another clarification.
The security deposit is exactly 0.006 BTC. The reason for that is to make sure that every Peer acts honest and doesn’t try to scam other Peers.
Risk for the buyer: Seller isn’t honest and claims that he didn’t receive the FIAT payment.
Risk for the seller: Buyer isn’t honest and doesn’t pay or chargebacks the FIAT payment.
Security deposits are an important part of Bisq to make sure the trade is completed successfully. 0.006 BTC is the minimum security deposit amount needed.
But in the event that the seller dishonestly claims that he has not received the fiat payment, couldn’t the buyer simply provide proof of payment (through PageSigner)?
It was not clear to me why, even if you set a value other than the default security deposit value, it would still return to 0.006 BTC once you try to finish the purchase offer publication procedure. But now thanks to your answer and your link (which I had not found), it is clear to me.
Thanks so much!
Yes, but without a security deposit everyone could try this.
By using the security deposit if the seller behaves dishonestly they risk losing their security deposit and the buyer will get both the trade amount and the sellers security deposit.
I deleted because I realized I wrote a shit.
So I would like to ask you one last question: why are you asking whoever announces the BTC sale offer to also load the security deposit? Let me explain: wouldn’t it be enough to have the entire BTC amount of the transaction loaded in advance in the multisignature wallet? What is the downside of doing this?
The minimum safety deposit of 0.006 creates a lot of inconvenience for those who just want to be able to sell their Bitcoins (not to mention the fact that now the fiat value of 0.006 is definitely too high).
Is there really no way to risk Bitcoins from an unethical seller, without having to charge more BTC at all regardless?
A buyer could not pay, a seller could unnecessary delay the release of BTC or even try to cheat saying that he did not receive any payment.
Buyers and sellers need to put up the security deposit, otherwise it would be free for them to try to scam the other part.
Okay, okay, I give up
Thanks for the clarification!
Excuse me, I know, I’m getting boring. However, the more I continue to use Bisq, the more ridiculous the security deposit amount seems to me.
Lately I’ve been using Bisq to buy Bitcoins for family and acquaintances, who want to buy it for very small amounts. Not wanting to personally risk my Bitcoins by using them as a security deposit for them, I try to do something else…
What seems quite ridiculous to me is the fact that if someone wants to sell or buy € 50.00 in Bitcoin he must already own and put around € 255.00 at the current exchange rate as a security deposit. Doesn’t that seem too much?
I understand that this amount (of 0.006 BTC) was decided in the past when it was actually an adequate amount for a transaction, but now it is far too much. Couldn’t this amount be adjusted? Couldn’t it be adjusted to the current exchange rate? Or even better, couldn’t be established in relation to the amount of the single transaction (15%, for example) and not independently of it?
Now 0.006 is a big amount to invest, especially if dedicated only to the security deposit of a transaction that maybe a guy who wants to invest only his only € 50.00 in something as valid as BTC. Except that right now Bisq is very inaccessible for this target of people (which by the way I think they are not even few), so he is forced to turn to a traditional exchange and this is very sad.
This is interesting.
The min security deposit was introduced because leaving only 5€ as security deposit was considered too small for people to even matter. I think that, given that changing the min security deposit is not a simple change parameter task, removing the min security deposit makes sense.
Still, the biggest hassle to 50 or even 100€ trades at Bisq is mining fees. All Bisq trades need 4 tx to be made onchain and the cost for every transaction grows with Bitcoin acceptance.
I have read the discussion of your link and I deduce that I have nothing to add here because it is evident that the problem is already widely discussed by people much more prepared, reliable and trusted than me. Thank you again for the clarifications!
I tried to open a discussion but it was closed and sent here.
My question was <Why do the BTC seller need a security deposit since he’s already locking his BTC?>
As for the buyer, it doesn’t matter how much BTC he’s buying. For the one who complained about buying $50 and needing a $250 security deposit; What if the buyer backpedal (like they do on LocalBitcoins)? A 50% penalty (only $25) is not enough to cover fees and the hassle. You shouldn’t use Bisq to buy such low quantities. And it’s the seller who sets the security deposit percentage.
The maker is the one who sets the security deposit percentage. Security deposit - Bisq Wiki
I understand the seller can also (try to) cheat but:
If I’m selling 1 BTC (with 50% security deposit)… If I (seller) try to cheat, can the 50% be deducted from the 1 BTC I’m selling (and locked)? Unless the security deposit is bigger than the selling amount, I see no reason for having it.
If you are the seller of 1 BTC and put up a 50% deposit you have 1.5 BTC tied up in a multi-sig (1 BTC for the trade amount and 0.5 BTC for the security deposit).
The buyer will have 0.5 BTC tied up in a multi-sig (0.5 BTC for the security deposit).
If you try and cheat the buyer. Lets say you receive the fiat payment but do not release the BTC you stand to lose both your 1 BTC for the trade amount and 0.5 BTC for the security deposit.
So you would end up 0.5 BTC worse off.