The cost of doing crypto business

Compared to cash, using most crypto currencies is still expensive. Exchanges generally take 4% when you buy BTC and then if you want ETH or XMR or DASH you lose more with a second transaction. Then if you want to spend it with a BTC debit card, there is more price gouging from the middleman.

Bitsquare changes that. Since there is only on step from fiat currency to your preferred crypto - direct contact with the seller - there is only one fee.

When crypto becomes cheaper to use than a credit card, and just as convenient, we will see a revolution. Mark my words.

Crypto is already cheaper. Cost of transactions is not the real issue. Rather, the origin of the “money” we “have” is the problem.

The purchasing power of most people in the developed world is mostly fueled by credit (mortgages, car loans, credits cards, even if temporary etc). Only a minority of us have a positive net worth of which a portion is accessible as “hard cash”.

As long as our spending habits are dictated by the availability of credit, and not available cash, there will be no revolution. This is because cryptocurrencies, in amounts significant enough to fuel your consumer habits, are really only available to those with cash to spare. The rest have to convert their credit to crypto with hefty fees. The credit and the fees will have to paid back one day, plus interest rates. For these people (the majority) cryptocurrencies are therefore out of reach.

if you have cash to spare, and think you can use it all to buy crypto, you can soon forget about that too. There is a global war waged against cash, motivated by the interests of banks and creditors. Cash is dangerous, as its transfer cannot be entirely controlled. Read up on it. It is fascinating. Increasing restrictions are placed on cash withdrawals, transport of cash etc throughout the western hemisphere. Banks are increasingly cash “free” in Europe. We are increasingly herded like sheep through credit institutions to facilitate our every spending need. Bought and paid for politicians are increasingly calling out for a “cash free” society. If you cannot accept that every singly transaction you make is monitored, it is because you have something to hide. Its scary stuff. Orwellian. Even pales to the fact I have 3 camera looking my way right now (laptop, desktop, phone)…

I agree that Bitsquare, or decentralized exchanges, in general could introduce a “paradigm shift” in how we exchange cryptocurrencies. But for the foreseeable time, I think crypto will remain a sandbox for relatively few. Not because the cost of crypto is high, and credit low but rather because of the high cost associated with converting credit to crypto.


4%? Spread in most large excahnges is rather small, no? Fiat funding and withdrawal has some costs at some exchanges though, but also less then 4% at least those I use in Europe (SEPA).
I also don’t think that the cost and convenience factor will be the main driver in the western countries. People pay more for using creditcards and dont care about the fees.
For international transfer though I think the costs difference is huge enough to help to boost btc.
I think the very property of store of value will be the killer app for btc, once people discover that the money on their bank is melting away or they cannot access it because of collapsing banks…
Another killer app will be the use cases which cannot be built with fiat (like mesh networks with cryptocoin micropayments, sharing apps,…).
An the third will be IMO the privacy issues. We live already in a mix of Orwell’s 1984 and Huxley’s Brave new world. Most people don’t care and are not aware, but the problems will become more damaging over time and then there will be those who have taken precautions early and who were able to keep a certain level of freedom and those who slept and were too late…

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@in-cred-u-lous I recently converted 10% of my net worth into crypto. With the restrictions imposed by KYC/AML at the exchange I had to do it in lots of $2500 a day. It was tedious. :slight_smile:

@manfred The 4% I was referring to is the round trip cost of converting fiat to BTC.

In Sweden we are quickly going cashless. What is equally “interesting” is that the banks are starting to abolish bank-safes as well. So in the near future we have to dig down our gold in the garden, and keep careful watch that nobody digs it up at night.
A killer app for crypto is simply tax evasion and hiding of wealth, e. g. during a divorce or a bad bankruptcy. I am actually surprised that bitcoin is not used more widely for such purposes. Still the turnover of bitcoin is doubling every year which is extremely fast, faster than the growth of Walmart, Lidl and Deutche Bank (together).

  • accumulated wealth is usually within mature hands which avoids unchartered waters (risk)
  • especially in volatile cryptos
  • one could face awkward questions about bank transfers with strange refs. (accountants are usually detail oriented)
  • anyway the counter party could release information about the transfer
  • buying BTC in meaningful quantities to avoid taxes/hide wealth via cash bears some risks as well
  • BTC acceptance still low
  • there may also some burden to future generations that might inherit ‘doubtful’ funds

@mepistol Argh! Don’t mention Deutsche Bank.

Deutsche Bank, Deutsche Bank, … .:relaxed:

The real problem is that lots of people still revert to doing business in percentages instead of, for example, tiered rates. Even bitsquare encourages thinking-by-percentage when it shows spreads.

One of the main pillars of using crypto was it’s flat-like fee structure; data size instead of value size… then all these middlemen pile in and revert back to percentages… aaggh!

Lets be honest you can’t use Bitcoin to evade taxes. I mean of course you can but you may not!
The beauty of Bitcoin is you control it. Its hard to just take from you (hacking aside). With banks they can just freeze your account, mistakenly or because you are a political threat etc etc.
Personally that makes me very uncomfortable. At any point you could be divested of your property. Bitcoin is international. Write down memorize the seed words of your wallet and thats it.
Sure they could torture it out of you, but then seriously move countries to a safer place.