Thoughts on getting more people into Bisq

I feel that Bisq is an awesome place, even if the growth rate is small and order books are super thin. I’ve been browsing the Bisq GitHub to see if I can contribute to anything, but unfortunately, everything there is above my knowledge/skills. But, as anyone who can’t contribute something worthwhile, I’ll try to contribute some ideas :smile:

  1. Integration with popular hardware and software wallets (Trezor, Exodus, Electrum)
  2. ETH and ERC20 functionality in the app to enable stablecoins. This will mean faster trades and will potentially allow automated trades with pairs like BTC/TUSD, BTC/USDC, BTC/PAX etc.

Will add more later. Gotta go work

Bisq is already fully funcitioning software. Development is very active, but mostly the growth, I think, now depends on the network effect.

We need more users, more offers and more people spreading the word to grow our network. Remember that this is P2P software, we always need to keep that in mind. it’s value depends mainly on the size of the network. More users, more valuable it is, which will bring even more users.

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Totally agree. I think that as soon as account protection tools are implemented, we actually need to start focusing on functionality that has growth-increasing potential. Right now, there development of account protection tools is just slow, and if not sped up, could result in Bisq popularity declining.

I don’t see it’s popularity declining, Bisq is growing at a very good pace. I feel the same as with Bitcoin: Bisq just need to do the things right, not perfect or fast, because their real rivals (banks, exchanges) are putting spoke on their wheels everytime.
Anyway that doesn’t mean Bisq should stop improving. When buying limits for new accounts go back to normal and segwit is implemented, we’ll be more ready to absorb new users.

What Bisq clearly does NOT need is more feature bloat and addition of more shitcoins.

Based on my usage experience Bisq is working, but its far from ready for mainstream use. I encountered rather frequent problems and bugs (still looking for a way to get access to my BSQ I bought with an imported payment account) and in my opinion the DAO is adding complexity and slows down the software.

If you ask me Bisq should concentrate on:

  1. Bug fixing, stability, and performance.
  2. Finding a simple and practical solution against scamming in BTC/Fiat trades and increase the purchase limits for new users (currently only 0.01 BTC no matter how long you wait).
  3. Cleaning up the UI (there are multiple simple improvements I’m thinking of - hope I find the time to write them down soon).
  4. Getting rid of exotic shitcoins without real world use that just bloat the selection lists. (Yes, I even think that XMR support might become a problem for the whole Bisq project when Bisq is used to launder scammer funds.)

Without significant improvements on at least 1) and 2) I can not recommend Bisq to new users, since it is unlikely that the majority will be satisfied with it. (Personally, I will still continue to use it and hope it will improve over time.)

I have a good news for you, you can act in such a way personnaly and immediately.
By stopping using USD , EUR and every fiat money because it doesn’t have a single note which wasn’t used to pay prostitution, drugs, scams, and so much other things.
While I agree with points 1/2/3 , it’s really pitiful to read such a stupid and inappropriate argument against XMR.

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Agree with you. The argument is inappropriate, but if such a buzz is going around, we need to listen.

I’ll try to do some research on Bisq reputation (forums, social, darknet etc.) to see what’s the actual buzz is about. Is there a way to actually check if the money is being laundered here? Just curious

Thanks for this.

I would argue that USDC is not a shitcoin but a useful tool in automated trading with a lot of volume. Just have a look: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/usd-coin/#markets

1/2/3 agree. For 4, we have a delisting protocol afaik. As long as assets provide volume and users, they should remain

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I hold a different view. As I see it, if Bisq were truly a decentralized exchange then any two people could trade any two items of value that they wish. The fact that a few people (with or without dao) can “list” or “de-list” and can impose trading limits is clear evidence to me that Bisq is a lot more centralized by its design than many realize. If Bisq core developers at least aspired to go in the direction of true decentralized exchange, I would have more hope, but from recent actions and conversations I am just not seeing it…

Is there a way to forget about coins that you know for sure you’re never going to use and you don’t worry about? I don’t want to have them listed on my node.

Being decentralized doesn’t mean there are rules to follow. Of course this rules are made by people and are not perfect.
Personally, I don’t thing that any thing with a blockchain or so called crypto should be on Bisq.
And the rules of generating volume for Bisq makes economic sense: Why would you want to list a coin that has never been traded on Bisq?

Bisq needs more devs! We are very short on dev resources at the moment.

If you know any senior java developer tell him about Bisq. The DAO pays above market rates. Good senior devs can earn about 15000 BSQ (15000 USD) for fulltime work. That is quite a lot. BSQ market is mature enough that contributors can sell their BSQ for BTC.

Bisq contains several fields of cutting edge technology:

  • P2P network
  • Tor integration
  • Trade protocol
  • Consensus protocol (DAO)
  • Bitcoin integration
  • Cryptographic sub-systems (like the protection tool currently being developed)

The DAO is the first real software company. A global company run purely by software.

It is based on freedom, transparency, meritocracy and openness:

  • Work whenever you want
  • Work from where you want
  • Work on what you want
  • No bosses
  • No hire, no fire. You come and go when you want.
  • Ask for compensation whatever you find is fair for your work
  • If BSQ stakeholders find your work valuable and your compensation request gets accepted by voting you issue yourself BSQ similar like a Bitcoin miner get the mining reward for extending a block to the blockchain.
  • BSQ stakeholders are the decentralized CEO body
  • Earning BSQ by work earns you merit and higher influence on the DAO. Bisq is owned and managed by contributors and BSQ stakeholders.

Develop a program for ingesting new blood.

My thinking is since most Senior Java Developers are likely up to their eye balls in other projects, consider developing a program to bring in new non-Java Developers. I’m just thinking a basic outline of core tools to master with pointers to where to get educated about them.

I think sometimes just getting started is the hardest part. Personally, I’ve been writing system level software since 1983 or so. It takes me about 2 years with any language to develop a high level of competency with it.

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I agree and have felt the same way. I think a good start would be on simply shifting the nature of the way this message is conveyed, because although development is vital and definitely the largest piece of the puzzle, it doesn’t mean that developers are the ONLY kinds of people that are needed. The public message could be that all manner of contributions are welcome.

I personally would like to begin creating written content that has the following attributes:

  1. Appeals to the absolute entry-level participant
  2. Educates in a clear way both information on process (“how to crypto”) but also underlying fundamentals like privacy and security.
  3. Encourages new users to ignore all the bells and whistles, and validate their own simplistic approach and objectives (Fiat-cost averaging into a BTC position in a secure and private way).
  4. Uses the above to create a culture of accommodation for new entrants by making orders available for people to get enough history for their trade limits to be lifted (say by coordinated intentional order making at a certain % above market rate).

I have been making some progress but do not have anything to show just yet. Along these lines I have noticed the KIS Bitcoin YouTube channel creating video content that is similar in this approach, I think they are onto the right path when it comes to non-development contribution.

Education on why Bisq matters and how is used is very important, but in the end, what makes a lot of users think about using Bisq is that they need to install software, that it takes time, is slow and maybe it just don’t work, that there’s no segwit while Bisq was clearly pro-segwit, that mining fees are high, that there’s no volume, that UI is not comfortable…
And most of this issues needs to be solved by devs.

Most crypto-projects are either web-based (JS) or use Python. I could get either sort of developers into Bisq if we could use Python or JS for development. If Java is the way to go for any reason, we need something that would allow developing a feature in another language (Python mostly due to the ease of development) then it could get “translated” into Java down the road.

Man, we have some hive mind going on you and I. Just want to quickly address some of the stuff you have written:

  1. The absolute entry-level participants need great UI/UX (look at exodus.io). Also, most of them will have a ton of questions that either must be answered (support.exodus.io) or they need to get an answer from the support staff, which we don’t have on Bisq.
  2. :100:
  3. and 4. Due to the current instability in the fiat world, entry-level users may just want to use crypto in order to escape this instability. The cost-averaging, intentional ordering etc. could be above their knowledge and lack of knowledge leads to losing money. Now add a panic mode to that, and the user loses everything.

Cough.
From the few I read here and there JS is not recommended when safety is concerned.
There is no week without seing a centralized exchange hacked. I would avoid using the same tools.

I know, I know :slight_smile: That’s why Python is more preferable in this regard, or is it?

In an established project with a large installation base like Bisq one does not change things fast and certainly not the programming language. Each programming language has its domain and for an application that is locally installed on different operating systems JavaScript does not make sense. Further there are far more Java than Python developers out there and therefore Java is certainly a reasonable choice.

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