Thoughts on getting more people into Bisq

Man, we have some hive mind going on you and I. Just want to quickly address some of the stuff you have written:

  1. The absolute entry-level participants need great UI/UX (look at exodus.io). Also, most of them will have a ton of questions that either must be answered (support.exodus.io) or they need to get an answer from the support staff, which we don’t have on Bisq.
  2. :100:
  3. and 4. Due to the current instability in the fiat world, entry-level users may just want to use crypto in order to escape this instability. The cost-averaging, intentional ordering etc. could be above their knowledge and lack of knowledge leads to losing money. Now add a panic mode to that, and the user loses everything.

Cough.
From the few I read here and there JS is not recommended when safety is concerned.
There is no week without seing a centralized exchange hacked. I would avoid using the same tools.

I know, I know :slight_smile: That’s why Python is more preferable in this regard, or is it?

In an established project with a large installation base like Bisq one does not change things fast and certainly not the programming language. Each programming language has its domain and for an application that is locally installed on different operating systems JavaScript does not make sense. Further there are far more Java than Python developers out there and therefore Java is certainly a reasonable choice.

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I started with Python but realised soon it is not the type of language suited for such a big project.

Yes, in the settings you can delist them.

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Adding USDC would make it much easier for me to use Bisq. I already have a coinbase account so its too late for me to avoid KYC, but USDC is quick and cheap, and likely to be pretty stable. Also, since its a cryptocurrency and not actual fiat, you don’t get any of the awful charge back problems most sources of actual fiat have.

Also atomic lightning swaps would be a game changer. It would remove any need for a 3rd party arbitrator between any currencies that support it and would drastically reduce the amount of fees needed for anyone making multiple trades or is already on the LN.

It’s not a cryptocurrency, it’s an ETH token backed by dollars deposited in bank accounts, allegedly at the name of Coinbase. If Coinbase or the government wants to stop this, they will.
It’s as fiat as the dollar, because you have to trust someone to maintain the 1USDC=1USD rate.

I have a few thoughs in mind, so I’ll write them here ( from none technical user.)

First, I think we have to explain again and again why Bisq is one of the only few project that respect BTC philosophy and communicate on why users should use Bisq rather than others exchanges.

About security, I have a personal question, can someone explain to me what is the difference holding btc in a btc wallet where you control the keys versus the security level of a bisq wallet ?

Second, I think we have to understand and identify customers needs, and improve things in that field.
For example I read the comment about Monero, as it seems to be the currency that users trade mostly on Bisq, we must keep them happy and make them even more happy.

To talk about my experience using Bisq, I had no issue learning about it to complete my first trades but it took me a lot longer than on “strandard” exchanges, and even if I found the community very welcoming to explain me a few points, I would like to get more tutorials, that explain me steps by steps from a newbie perpective how to proceed to my first trades and BSQ account configuration (with the current UI). We must help people to jump into the ship by making it effortless as possible, being sure that users don’t stick on one “difficult” step. (like having some btc already in the account to place a trade or bsq to ask for a compensation).

About Marketing actions, as I said, tutorials videos is great, but views remains not high, Translators can create socials medias accounts and post in their langague. (I’ve seen a German translator with high BTT rank, that can post topic in German sub for example). But in terms of impact, I think, I would be better to identify one famous guy/girl in the crypto world for every country, and contact him for a video proposal about Bisq ( of course his reputation should be perfect and not with questionnable history).

As I’m relatively new into Bisq, and only contributed to French translation and marketing (Bitcointalk and Twitter), please don’t take my words too hardly !

One way to hold BTC on a BTC wallet is to have your own BTC full node (ie a node with the complete blockchain on your own computer) and do your transactions with this node.
This is the shortest and thus safest and more secure way to proceed.
Between you and your wallet there is only the “official” bitcoin open source software. … but it needs to download the whole blockchain (which is not so easy for everyone).

With Bisq, a majority of users don’t have their own BTC full node, and will do their transactions using some remote BTC full node which is part of a network of known and approved BTC nodes. (This reduces the risk to use BTC nodes operated by hackers or chain analysis companies).
Between you and your wallet there is : The Bisq OS software + a remote node + the bitcoin open source software. You have 2 more steps. It’s up to you to decide if you’re ok with that or not.

But Bisq allows also its users to use their own BTC full node if they have one.

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You can verify this by yourself in the Bisq appli. Just look at trades.
XMR = more than 95% of trade volume, while the best fiat must be ~3%.
This is happening since a long time ago (~1 year), and seems unlikely to change in mid-term, since cryptest cryptos, like Zcash and monero and the like, seem now to be on the radar, and are delisted here and there.

But yes, if a good DEX competitor emerges for the monero market, this could hurt badly Bisq.

Doing some dev for the altcoin market wouldn’t be completely irrational.
(Maybe some other altcoins could behave well on Bisq. eg GRIN).

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Short answer: there’s little difference
Long answer: the BTC wallet in Bisq is your typical SPV BIP39 non-custodial hot software wallet. I’m sure you have written down your 12 words (in case you haven’t, do that ASAP!). There is no difference in security if you store your main funds in another non-custodial wallet like Electrum, Exodus, Jaxx, you name it. If you want enhanced security, go with a hardware wallet. My personal preference is Trezor because it’s relatively cheap, has open hardware, well-built, and it is supported by Exodus, so you can have a pretty front-end for it. Ledger wallets are also good, but they seem to have a proprietary secure element for signing transactions and I’m not a fan of that.

If you don’t have funds to buy a Trezor, don’t want to have a hardware wallet for any reason, and don’t care about assets other than Bitcoin, try doing a multisig wallet. 2 out of 3 will be good: 1 seed is on your phone, 1 on your PC, 1 is in reserve in case one of the previous ones gets compromised or lost. Just remember to store your seeds in safe places and in multiple copies. Don’t store them digitally and don’t store two seeds from a multisig wallet in one place. Let me know if you need any additional advice

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Thank you for your long answer. Sure, I noted my seed, but I have not yet done my homeworks about multisig wallet.

1-As you talking about Trezor, I would have one question about it. In case the trezor hardware fail, there is a recovery procedure ? Does Bisq allow a kind of recovery procedure not using Bisq Software?

I have 2 more questions, but it is not related to the same subject.

2-it there a place I can see how many BSQ tokens from the genesis distribution have moved from their genesis wallet ?

3-is there an easy way to add a sound notification when one of my orders is taken ?

Merci !

You can:

  • either monitor the webapi with a bit of code -> https://markets.bisq.network/api/
  • either run Bisq from CLI with Bisq --dumpStatistics=true and monitor the produced json file with a bit of code.
    In both case, you run your code with cron

(Warning : depending on OS, producing a sound is sometimes tedious).

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Concerning hardware wallets.
A second hand portable computer (100$), under a good Linux + a plugable/unplugable 5$ wifi key for the internet connection, or a cable. And you’re done.

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  1. Yes. When you initialise your Trezor, it gives you 12, 18 or 24 words you need to write down and store in a safe place. This is the same old BIP39 seed, but this time it will be stored in your Trezor. If your device is lost or stolen you can: a) restore this seed on a new Trezor device and send the funds out if necessary or b) use another BIP39-compatible wallet or https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39 to get your private keys and the funds out
    To answer the question within this question, you can restore your Bisq funds on a BIP39-compatible wallet such as Electrum. Exodus team has written an article that explains how: https://support.exodus.io/article/159-import-your-bitcoin-wallet-into-electrum

The procedure is the same, but you use your Bisq seed, not Exodus seed and you follow step 6a only when it comes to derivation path.

P.S. I linked Exodus article not because I like them, but because there’s no official documentation on importing BIP39 seeds for Electrum

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Yes iam using a dedicated laptop for my main Bisq account only (but with windows and Wifi until now :roll_eyes:).

Although I believe that of course we need to market Bisq, explain it, prepare tutorials and the like, I believe Bitcoin will be doing most of the marketing activity for us in the mid and long run. If you look at the stats, probably Bisq’s volume is not more than 2% of the total volume exchanged worldwide.

If Governments start becoming aggresive towards centralized exchanges, that 98% will naturally move to Bisq or any other existing (truly) decentralized platform. It is a priority that at that moment Bisq is ready to scale as flawlessly as possible. As a result I believe the priority right now must be onboarding more developers, code reviewers and project managers, fine tuning protocols, bug fixing, minimizing fraud, improving the service to the extent it is possible, etc…

If you decide to use a laptop just as a cold wallet, it’s a good opportunity to install and use some Linux on it.
I don’t think that wifi is an issue. One big safety measure is just to have your wifi flowing thru a plugable key, ie a key you can plug when needed and remove when finished.

In this matter the current Bisq version 2 trade protocol proposal with mandatory BSQ stakeholding (bonds) should be rethinked.

Bisq version 2 implications:

https://bisq.community/t/bisq-version-2/8638