I’ve done my first trades and everything went smoothly. Amounts were very small so far. But now I’m considering larger amounts, which of course leads me to think through security even more.
Let’s say I’m selling BTC for fiat via SEPA or SEPA Instant, and I receive payment very quickly. So far, I have always confirmed receipt of payment pretty much immediately. But now I’m wondering: could they instruct their bank to undo the fiat payment and keep both BTC and fiat? What’s the time frame for that? If I only confirmed receipt of fiat a few minutes before the end of the deadline, would that change anything?
Or is this simply the risk of selling for fiat? Do scams like this happen frequently? Or should I switch to something like Revolut or Moneybeam or Transferwise - are those safer?
Sellers have until the end of the maximum trade period to do so.
When dealing with unsigned accounts it is recommended that the seller take as long as possible (i.e., wait until close to the end of the trade period) to confirm receipt of payment to reduce the chance of a chargeback.
Hi @bisquat for large amount …
I would avoid unsigned accounts. I rather go for known traders with more than 60 days signing; even better if you have traded before with that trader.
btw, this is only my opinion.
Thanks for your responses. It’s good to hear that scams are rare.
So with SEPA, I should wait for nearly 6 days? It feels like the poor buyer will be sweating a lot towards the end…
I don’t quite follow. I just sold some BTC (very little) via SEPA Instant to an account that is brand new and unsigned. So how does SEPA Instant require signing?
At first, this sounded like a great idea. But then I realised, fiat is not Bitcoin. So it’s not like me transferring that fiat away would stop the bank from doing a chargeback, would it?
This sounds very reasonable, yes. And what do I do when I sell BTC? I don’t get to choose a buyer then, or do I?
It is best practice to communicate with peer, let them know you received the money but will wait towards the end of trade period to release, to avoid chargeback risk.
Also, signing will not prevent users from trading, just from trading over a certain amount, which usually is 0.01BTC; after getting signed and aged, users will be able to trade higher amounts.
You can choose buyer when selling BTC in two ways: be a taker (which will cost more), or make an offer for a trade amount over the unsigned limit, for example 0.011BTC is enough to filter out any account that has not been signed and aged.
This is a very good suggestion, thank you. In your experience, does it go down well with peers if they have to wait for 6 days?
Also, I’ve read up a bit on chargebacks of SEPA bank transfers and they are actually not as easy to get your bank to do as I thought they were.
This does not apply to other forms of chargebacks (e.g. credit cards or direct debit), which can be much easier to pull off. Also, there may be differences among jurisdiction, I don’t know.
I received the “will release BTC at end of period” treatment at my second or third trade, so well, wasn’t really happy, but seller sounded friendly, talkative and trustworthy so I still keep a good memory of them. It all depends on how you are able to give a good impression I guess
SEPA chargebacks are harder indeed, as a mistake while paying with SEPA is harder to make fly if compared to a mistake with a credit card… but are not impossible, especially if buyer wants to play dirty and mention bitcoin in the reason for chargeback. The longer the time before the request though, the harder it gets.
So with SEPA, I should wait for nearly 6 days? It feels like the poor buyer will be sweating a lot towards the end…
Yes, for new users that are using unsigned accounts it is recommended to wait 6 days. You can always let them know you have received payment in chat.
I don’t quite follow. I just sold some BTC (very little) via SEPA Instant to an account that is brand new and unsigned. So how does SEPA Instant require signing?
SEPA Instant requires the same signing process as SEPA. Same rules apply.
At first, this sounded like a great idea. But then I realised, fiat is not Bitcoin. So it’s not like me transferring that fiat away would stop the bank from doing a chargeback, would it?
The most probable risk is not a chargeback. It is your bank asking for information about the payment. It you do not satisfy their request they might refund the person that made the transfer to you. Transferring the funds out stops this scenario from occurring. Also using an account you can keep at a low / zero balance between receiving funds for trades is good practice.
well at this point you have to take into consideration something else as well: finding an empty account will help up to a point: if you only use a bank account for Bisq transactions (no purchases, no credit card activity, no stonks) the bank will not earn much from you and might be more inclined to terminate the account just because they can… so it’s a fine balance
So it’s not like me transferring that fiat away would stop the bank from doing a chargeback, would it?
