Clarify sepa credit transfer

Hi All,
I work in a Bank and I would like to clarify SEPA credit transfer function.
In EURO SEPA AREA there are 2 system through which send a Euro Transfer.
They are:
TARGET 2
EBA CLEARING

TARGET 2 is using to transfer all Sepa Credit Transfer (SCT) amount up to 500000€ and SCT urgent that reach beneficiary in the same day of execution and within 2 hours from sending (D).

EBA CLEARING is usued to all ordinary SCT that reach beneficiary the next business day from sending (D+1)
There are also SCT HIGH that reach beneficiary the same day of execution (D) but not have guaratee credit hours, guaratee also same day, so it should be credited to account at 18.00 pm or after.

If sender want to recall SCT after his account has been debited and SCT sent into TARGET 2 or EBA CLEARING can ask his bank to send a request of refund called RECALL.
But the RECALL is not automatic. If SCT is still on the beneficiary account it is ALWAYS MANDATORY to have beneficiary approval to refund money.

Recently there is a new SCT called INSTANT SEPA CREDIT TRANSFER.
Credit to beneficiary within 1 minute. There is al the moment an amount limit up to 15000€. This SCT is not recallable.
At the moment not all european banks manage SCT Instant.

Please verify cut off sending time, because this may vary depending bank capabilities.

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Thanks for the info. Does it ever happens that the beneficiary bank honors a RECALL without asking the account holder?

how can I figure out which type my bank uses? Target 2 or EBA CLEARING?

Why would bisq put a very low trade limit with SEPA since it’s not recallable without having the beneficiary approval ?

How about all those stories about hacked account sending SEPA transfers that are later reversed and the beneficiary account frozen and under investigation ?

If the beneficiary bank do not ask the beneficiary for consent to return the money, is contravening the provisions of the SEPA circuit for SCT and the beneciary can ask to his bank to credit his account.
I think that BISQ team doesn’t know right in and in depth SEPA regulation.
Now I check and verify if SCT INSTANT is also RECALLED from payer.
Please find in the attached link to PDF and read from page 28 to 33.

https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/sites/default/files/kb/file/2018-11/EPC125-05%202019%20SCT%20Rulebook%20version%201.0.pdf

If BISQ team do not know what are the technical and legal specifications of SCT, they don’t be able to create a really performing decentralised BTC exchange.
Giovanni

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We are all the Bisq team :slight_smile: It is the nature of open source projects to get someone who knows more to help out the way they can.

Thank you for all your help in understanding SEPA better. It is the most popular fiat payment method I believe, so your expertise is very welcome here.

Please consider joining our Slack on #payment-methods channel.

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OK thanks, please be also advised that is the intention of the European Council to upgrade actually amount limit to SEPA INSTANT (actually up to 15K €).
The legislation regarding RECALL for SCT (normal not instant) is the same for SEPA instant trasfer (few second to have amount on the account)
Please also note that not 100% of European Bank are ready to support SCT Instant.
This link for bank compliant on 30 apri 2019.

Bye

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Also, keep in mind that it’s not only about losing money. If you receive money from a hijacked account and refuse the return of money you don’t lose any money but your bank might still decide to close your account. Perhaps not if it happens only once but for repeat offenders I suspect the bank won’t be so patient.

If Bisq gets known as a good place to cash out accounts for scammers there will be a lot of Bisq users having their bank accounts closed which would be counter productive. I also think it’s not good to support such scamming activities, they are by most peoples standards immoral, and it would also bring the wrong kind of attention to Bisq.

Hi,
If I want to buy 1 BTC I transfer Euro on seller IBAN account. When money has been received, the BTC seller confirm and sent me 1 BTC.
It is possible to introduce a restriction: recall is not possible after 10 days from credit date to beneficiary.
BTC seller transfer 1 BTC only after this time.
What do you think about?
Obviously 1 BTC seller must be frozen during 10 days period.
What do you think about?

Giovanni

There has been a lot of discussion around this topic on github. See for example https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/93 and feel free to add comments there. We are currently deciding on how to move forward so your contribution is very welcome.

Giovanni,

Since you work in a bank.
Does it ever happen that the beneficiary of fiat received from a stolen bank account gets his account blocked if he has done nothing wrong? In our case bought BTC which is perfectly legal in most jurisdictions.
Is it easy to buy or steal a bank account?
It is commonly assumed in the Bisq community that one easily buys login details on the dark market for a reasonable sum. I have my doubts that it is that easy to get a working login.

You are right! Beneficiary in the most cases (99.9%) is not
aware that the funds credited to his account are stolen funds.
The bank has always the right to close an account, also
without having to provide any reasons, just the notice provided in the current account contract.