Hi,
I opened a dispute on November 25th (the last day of the trade duration) as the seller did not confirm payment, now 6 days have passed and several messages sent but i have
not received even acknowledgement let alone any resolution from arbitrator.
I am out of money having made the transfer to the seller
Can anyone please tell me what is happening?
I assume you are running the latest version of Bisq.
Perhaps you are having connectivity issues. If you share your trade id or the arbitrators onion address he will get in touch with you here.
Thank you for the speedy reply!
Yes I am running v0.6.1 the latest version of Bisq.
Arbitrator’s onion address is: swfmgmb2aoyqxkte.onion:9999
Hope for this to be resolved asap.
Cheers
I pinged the arbitrators to check…
Hello, I am the arbitrator with that onion address. Can you tell me, @tani28, what the trade ID is? Should be a 5-8 alphanumeric string.
Hello, thanks for getting back to me, the trade ID is: TCTJOFBF
I closed this ticket out on Nov 24th, but it looks like something has gone wrong. I’m investigating now, and have re-opened the ticket in Bisq. @tani28, please check your arbitration messages and respond to me there, thank you.
Ok, @tani28, I have figured out what happened. I originally closed out this trade on November 24th, as detailed in the arbitration chat messages, but the payout transaction did not occur as expected. This sort of thing has happened before, although quite rarely, and the solution is often to simply re-open and re-close the ticket. That’s what I have just done, and you’ll now find that your available balance in Bisq now includes the bitcoin you purchased from the seller in this trade. You’ll also notice that you have been returned only half of your security deposit (the seller was awarded the other half). Please carefully read all arbitration messages on your side to understand why this happened. Thank you for reaching out about this, and my apologies at the delayed payout. Everything should be in order now, though.
My payment was never confirmed by the seller, I waited patiently till the last day of the trade as i couldn’t do anything till then. I opened a dispute immediately when the option became available to me (25th Nov 2017 at 18:12) and got the following system message:
"System message: You opened a request for a dispute.
Please note the basic rules for the dispute process:
1. You need to respond to the arbitrators requests in between 2 days.
2. The maximum period for the dispute is 14 days.
3. You need to fulfill what the arbitrator is requesting from you to deliver evidence for your case.
4. You accepted the rules outlined in the wiki in the user agreement when you first started the application.
Please read more in detail about the dispute process in our wiki:
https://github.com/bisq-network/exchange/wiki/Arbitration-system"
I waited for the arbitrators response but did not get any. Two days passed and i sent the following message:
“_Hello, _
The trade period has already ended two days ago Saturday 25th November. I opened a dispute as there has been no confirmation from seller of receipt of funds and release of coins. The transfer from my side was completed on Monday 20th November. Could you please contact the seller as soon as you can (if you haven’t already) to find out why there has been no action on their part? Looking forward to your reply.
Thank you.”
I waited another day then sent the following message:
“Hello,
Can you please confirm receipt of my message and if you have attempted to contact the seller?. I would apreciate it if you can let me know either way.
Thank you.”
After a further two days of waiting without a response (on the 30th Nov at 17:22) I wrote the following:
"Hi,
_I opened a dispute on November 25th the last day of the trade duration as the seller did not confirm payment, now 5 days have passed and several messages sent but i have _
_not received even acknowledgement let alone any resolution. _
- I am out of money having made the transfer to the seller
- the arbitrator has’t yet after 5 days written to at least acknowledge the situation
Can anyone please tell me what is happening?"
At this point, knowing that my messages fell on deaf ears i had to resort to the forum for help.
This is worrying, and you are an arbitrator?, what sort of arbitration is this?
You never communicated with me
You never acknowledged my messages
You never asked for evidence on my part
Somehow Bisq enabled smooth communication with the seller but not with me
You state that “I originally closed out this trade on November 24th, as detailed in the arbitration chat messages”. What evidence do you have for this?. I never received any messages from you. The only two messages i can see on Bisq are the messages you have posted today in this forum, that’s it, no other messages.
You have awarded half my security deposit to the seller today but you closed the trade on the 24th?
You are advising me to read the non-existent messages you sent on Bisq?
There seem to be too many discrepancies between what you say and what I see on Bisq.
Even if you were to provide evidence for what you are claiming, what would you say to the fact that from my side I can prove otherwise.
If trust in Bisq is needed to get mass adoption then i can assure you that by performing this sort of magic is not the way to achieve trust.
I hope Manfred can look into this.
Hi @tani28, it looks like something has gone wrong with messages getting to you during this arbitration session, and I believe you when you say that you did not see any messages from me. I ask that you please also believe me when I tell you that I did in fact send you many messages over the 72 hour period between the opening and closing of this ticket. In order to figure this out, I suggest we share screenshots of our Bisq arbitration chat windows, and that will help us to understand what may have gone wrong. If you are comfortable doing so, we can share these screenshots here in the forum, or we can move the conversation to a private chat. I’ll leave that decision up to you, but I will say that it may be better to do it here publicly, as the screenshots will be able to be reviewed by the seller, and by @ManfredKarrer (Bisq’s project founder) or one of our other arbitrators.
Everything that has happened has an explanation, no doubt. Let’s work through it together. If this was a networking issue or other bug on our side, I apologize in advance, and thank you in advance for helping us discover what happened.
I’ll stand by here. If you’re ok sharing screenshots, of your arbitration chat window, please do that now, and I’ll respond with screenshots from my side afterward (note that I will not include any personally identifying information in screenshots taken from my side). Thanks.
To begin with i’d like to thank you for displaying a problem solving attitude which I appreciate, as well as acknowledging that there is a technical issue of some sort. Also, from my side I can provide you with any required proof to further help get to the bottom of this.
I have taken 5 screen-shots of the messages in the arbitration chat window as the area cannot be maximized to display all the messages in one screen-shot. I have taken the screen-shots in succession from snap1 - 5. In each screen-shot I have included part of the previous message at the top as well as part of the message that follows so you can clearly see that there is no other messages in between that are not being included. I hope this makes sense.
While trying to upload I get a message saying new users can only upload one file. Will see if I can upload them individually as a separate post.
We had some issues the last days with seed node stability. That might have caused an issue the the network messages did not arrive. @tani28 Can you PM me your log file (account/backup -> button to open logs) so I can see if there were errors?
Thanks, @tani28, for the screenshots. Here are mine:
Note the blue checkboxes under my original messages to you. This is an indication (under normal conditions) that the recipient’s Bisq client is online and has actually received the message. The fact that my messages had been received (again, or at least appeared to have been received), combined with the other details of this trade, led me to believe that you, for whatever reason, were refusing to respond.
Awarding security deposits happens pretty rarely in Bisq, as most disputes are the result of misunderstandings or mistakes. But non-responsiveness to arbitration chat is something that we do penalize, as it wastes a lot of time and energy for arbitrators and for the other party in the trade, and it also keeps the other party’s bitcoin locked up for extended periods of time. This looked like one such scenario, and so I went ahead with awarding half of your security deposit to the seller, after confirming with them that they were still willing to accept your payment.
In any case, there was clearly a technical issue involved here. Perhaps it has to do with the seed node instability that Manfred mentioned earlier, perhaps it was something else. In any case, this is the first time we’ve seen such an issue where messages appeared to be delivered, but simply were not. We’ll get to the bottom of that.
In the meantime, I will attempt to contact the seller and see if they are willing to refund some portion of your security deposit on review of the details of this trade. I’ll stay in touch here, and we’ll get this worked out in any case.
Thank you so much, and please let me know if you have any questions.
Update: I have sent a direct message via Bisq to the seller to see if they are willing to refund the half of your security deposit I awarded them, @tani28. Let’s stand by and see what they decide. I’ll keep my eye on this and get back to you in any case. Best regards.
Update: I haven’t heard back from the seller after my direct message to them yesterday, and I’ve also checked the @tani28’s bitcoin address used in this trade, and I don’t see that the seller has sent any refund to it yet. For these reasons, I’ve re-opened the ticket from the seller’s side, and re-posted my explanation of the situation to them there. I’ll continue to stand by for their response, and will follow up here. Thanks all.
