Taker remains silent and Pagesigner is not compatible (solved)

Hi,

I’ve just made my first trade and the trade went to a dispute as the BTC seller did not release the coins.

After the maximum trade time ended I opened a dispute and began the process of trying to provide evidence of the fiat being transferred. I encountered huge problems with getting PageSigner to work having tried it on two different machines with one having a clean Chrome install (no other extensions to get in the way).

But still I get this message “Pagesigner is not compatible with this website because the website does not use RSA ciphersuites” I try search for help but no luck.

The seller remains silent and Pagesigner is not compatible with my banks website. Where do I go from here?

Checkout this thread for reference. It’s unfortunate that there Pagesigner isn’t ubiquitous. Doesn’t your bank provide a digital certificate of the transfer?

I never had provided with “digital certificate of the transfer” when making faster payment though all the different banks I use. In this case my bank sent me a text message confirmation of successful fast payment transfer I checked my transactions statement myself to confirm that the payment was indeed sent.

I’m going to call my bank tomorrow to trace the fast payment and to ask them to provide me with some sort of digital certificate of the transfer if they do do that kind of things.

In hindsight, after doing some research into this platform I noticed that the overwhelming disputes, probably over 95% of them are about locked funds where the seller did not release the coins and the seller remains silent not responding after receiving the funds. Do not think that stat is a coincidence at all; I wonder why would that be? Just to waist everybody’s time? Are there any consequence for such shady behaviors?

I love the whole concept, the simplicity and the security of this amazing platform which I love to support but at the moment as a new user clearly I’m not having a great user experience here…

Every thing that you find wrong with Bisq is a chance to help improve. We’re all building it together.
The other trader has 48 hours after the end of the trade period to respond. After that I believe the arbitrator should award you with funds. This are the handles for the arbitrators.

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Update, this dispute has been solved thanks to @Arbitrator2

After over 3 days since dispute opened the taker remained silent, not responding and the maker could not make pagesigner work, to be fair I’m not the only one here who’s having problems getting pagesigner to work, I have seen several other cases in exact same situations.

As a community we need to fix/sort the problem with pagesigner one way or another, otherwise we’ll have continues problems if we relay on a system that hardly works and has virtually zero support on.

Thanks for the arbitrator for closing the trade in my favor; although I strongly feel that the Taker did not deserve his deposit back as he wasted everybody’s time and effort by not following the rules. Not fair!

If I understand it correctly, you didn’t get their security deposit?

Yes that’s correct I didn’t get their security deposit.

Hum, I feel like you should have. It is the BTC buyer’s responsibility to provide tamper proof of the payment and it is the responsibility of the BTC seller to be available at the end of the trade period to respond to the arbitrator. Since @Arbitrator2 felt comfortable sending you the trade amount, they should also give you the other trader’s security deposit.

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Indeed I agree. Having wasted a lot of time in an effort to get pagesigner to work doing a lot of research, trying different computers and so on. Plus was forced to provide video evidence in doing so compromising my privacy, anonymity and security which negates the whole point of using decentralized peer to peer trading which Bisq platform was meant to be. And for the whole time of period I wasn’t able to make another trade as Bisq platform was constantly non stop showing “Warning errors of locked funds” pop ups so it was impossible to use the platform without warning pop up interruptions.

So given all of that It would have been more-than appropriate I should have been give the other trader’s security deposit.

you are totally right, I didn’t take a second to consider all of that, will compensate you accordingly.

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Just to confirm as promised I’ve received the compensation so I’m quite satisfied with the outcome of this particular case.

I have to say I’m pleased with how @Arbitrator2 handled this case very professionally, good communication and in helpful manner so kudos to him.

Thank you @huey as well for being helpful and understanding.

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@Arbitrator2
Could you also comment/act on the (exact same) issue I had?

I understand your point of view but I think the arbitrator acted accordingly. Understand that there has to be a significant proof (using pagesigner) to prove that a payment has been made. And that in Bisq we take security very seriously. The arbitrator probably knew that you were being truthful but even then he can’t risk not being 100% certain. I get these kinds of situations are annoying but they are needed for there not to be any people who try to take advantage. I hope your future experiences are better.

@Arbitrator2
As mentioned in the original thread:

  1. PageSigner seems unreliable (as also mentioned in this thread) and the community requires something more reliable and with better support.

  2. You are correct that I was unable to provide ‘PageSigner’ evidence and it is prudent in these cases for the arbitrator to wait to be sure of where to send the funds. As you say, the arbitrator probably ‘knew’ that I was being truthful. Once this was confirmed to be the case, I feel that the seller should then have been reprimanded for wasting an inordinate amount of time. I believe this to be the key point.

Additionally, my case seems to be identical to the case reported by the OP…buyer provided digital screenshots and video evidence (albeit neither digitally signed) and seller remained silent. In the OPs case it was three days. In my case it was six days. The OP received the security deposit and I did not. I am not sure of the difference.

I would have to know more details, for all the arbitrator knew at that point, you could have made a late payment and the seller just confirmed right when he received it. That is why pagesigner plays a significant role in verifying payments and it is why it shouldn’t be a problem to use. it is true that it has given difficulties to other people in the past and I hope we eventually find a better way but I believe the arbitrator did not have sufficient information in this case to judge with certainty who should have received the deposit. On the case above the buyer actually provided all his private information on that video (which we don’t recommend) And there was no doubt he was being truthful.

@Arbitrator2
I still fail to see the difference, unfortunately. I also provided my private details in at least three videos and various screenshots and was open to other ways of proving the payment. The seller remained silent for six days after the dispute was opened (this cannot be acceptable). If it was a late payment from me, the seller should still have been making contact (and profusely so if they thought they were being defrauded). Additionally, was the seller asked if it was indeed a late payment?

The trade ID was tsirksfi-12d54d3d-2b0e-4051-98b8-7e315b4dd282-112 and the arbitrator was g72ouph23eznvpuz.onion:9999 which seems to be you.

ok I completely understand your point of view but you have to consider. first that the only official way to verify your fiat payment is through pagesigner or the confirmation of the seller. If you fail to do so then the arbitrator does not have the obligation per se to close the ticket in your favor.(or at least as initial consideration, every trade and situation is different) I just had a look at the trade and the seller confirmed he pressed on payment received previously but for some reason it wasn’t noted on the app. There was no reason to think this was done with malice and therefore was not considered that it should be penalized. (If you had provided evidence the seller would have been penalized and you would have received the deposit after 48hrs)
"The BTC buyer is responsible to provide the arbitrator with proof of their payment. If they fail to do so and the BTC seller says they haven’t received any funds, the BTC seller gets all the funds in escrow. "
On this case both parties didn’t comply with one of the requirements. You weren’t able to provide evidence of your payment using pagesigner and the seller took too long to respond. As the trade evidence was unclear there was no choice but to wait for your confirmation or for the seller to respond.
If you are comparing your case to the previous one, the only difference is that the buyer on that case gave out ALL his private information (again we do not recommend). You showed a video of the trade in an account, but there was no certainty that it was 100% truthful. I know that this situation is annoying but when there isn’t enough proof the only thing we can do is wait. Hopefully soon we will add other verifying methods that work better. I hope you don’t have these problems on future trades.

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@Arbitrator2
Okay, thank you for your reply. I still disagree with your assessment but there is nothing more I can do about that. The fact that the seller allegedly pressed release still doesn’t excuse a six day wait.

I am continuing to use Bisq currently and I fear that the next time I face this type of dispute it is going to be impossible for me to prove my transaction using PageSigner and I will be in the same dire situation.

I agree that there needs to be a digitally secure way of doing this, however, PageSigner appears not to be it. There seems to be a multitude of issues with many users and various websites, the PageSigner’s own website still links to a Firefox extension page that doesn’t exist meaning it only ‘supports’ one browser, and the support for and development of PageSigner seems to be non-existent. The community is in need of something much better.

As the community (hopefully) grows, this issue is only going to get bigger and hinder the future of the platform.

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