Buyer made a chargeback (SEPA)

#1

Hello, I received an EUR payment (SEPA) from the buyer (I was selling BTC) and I was ready to unlock my BTC. Today I got a call from my bank which told to me that the buyer asked for a cancellation (chargeback) of his payment. Since there are still 4 days left to end the transaction this looks suspicious to me. I opened a dispute on the ongoing trade and I’m waiting for an arbitrator to contact him to ask explanations. My fear is that when I unlock my btc he can potentially fill the chargeback and get EUR+btc. What can I do in this situation? Thanks

Additional info. he bought BTC at 5225€, far above the market price.

TRADE ID: 49797

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#2

Hello,
Look at the previous thread Same onion address, different people
if the onion address of the counterparty is not the same involved ?

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#3

Sorry Homard I don’t get your answer. I can see his peer but I’ve never traded with him before. Do you think there is a possibility that someone stole his credit card and made a payment with it? (explaining the chargeback, which he filled with ‘fraud’ reason)

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#4

It’d be great if we had an avenue to post this bad actors onion addresses’ for everybody to see. Maybe only arbitrators would have writing rights to try to avoid abusing it.

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#5

Just got a message from arbitrator, wow
This peer is likely a stolen bank account scammer. We got at least one report from a user where the bank blocked 3 transfers. Please send back the EUR to the sender (use exact data as in bank statement not as in Bisq app). Does the sender data match the account data in Bisq? Once you sent it back let me know. You will get his security deposit then and all your BTC back. Please check if you had other trades with that peer? If so please send me the trade details so we can find out more about that scammer.

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#6

@pandamonio00 ,
When you trade with somebody in Bisq, you can see his onion address.
In the thread Same onion address, different people
there is an onion mentioned, possibly belonging to a scammer.
Look if, by chance, it is not the same as the one of your counterparty.
If it is the same … then that doesn’t smell good.

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#7

is there a way to avoid in the future malicious peers like him?

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#8

in Settings/Preferences, you can write the onions you don’t want to trade with.

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#9

Not really, best we can do is use account age witness to limit the usefulness of Bisq to scammers.

Lowering the limits for new accounts is best we can do for now, probably.

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#10

will he be able to take my offers in the future if i ignore him?

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#11

I don’t think so, but I’m not 100% sure.
(Bisq has so few scam cases atm).
ping @ManfredKarrer ?

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#12

@Homard doesn’t seem so few scam cases to be honest, I’ve joined Bisq not long ago and I already got 3 chargeback requests :frowning:
I’ve written some more details in the other thread

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#13

Until recently, Bisq had really few scams. You can browse the forum to count.
If you had traded 10 times in a row with the same scammer, you would have had 10 chargebacks.
If you had traded 20 times in a row with the same scammer, you would have had 20 chargebacks.
… And very bad stats for Bisq.
It’s not an easy task in general to protect people against themselves.
It’s even much more difficult on a DEX where we simultaneously do our max to respect the user’s privacy.

I’ve answered more fully in the other thread.

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#14

Hi @Homard, you’re right seems it was one single scammer (so far), hope it will also be the last one.
Cheers

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#15

It is the first time we experience chargebacks with SEPA. Before there have been 2 with Zelle. Venmo, Cahsapp had a handful of chargebacks but we removed those payment methods afterwards as it was clear they are too unsafe. We are working on further protection tools. But unfortunately dealing with Fiat and banks one inherit their flawed security concept…

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#16

Same situation here except I already accepted the deal once fiat was transfered (so no way to dispute). My bank asks my permission to drawback, which I will refuse, else I’ll deal with the negative consequences of this fraud.

edit: address of the scammer is kqsaevkgu7apgzlt.onion - please be aware!

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#17

I guess that depends on the banks involved in the trade. Not all banks do have the same safety measures in place.

For other Bisq traders the names of these banks would be a useful piece of information. Can you share that with us?

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#18

Same address, same scammer!
Everyone should blacklist him.

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#19

Banks involved from the scammer side:

  • Volksbank Cloppenburg (Germany) BIC: GENODEF1CLP
  • BUNQ B.V. - Amsterdam (Netherlands) BIC: BUNQNL2AXXX (My same bank!)
  • RAIFFEISENBANK HESSENNORD EG - WOLFHAGEN (Germany) BIC: GENODEF1WOH

They have all requested a chargeback, luckily so far only one got executed, but still my bank (Bunq) shut my account down and I have my other funds frozen, to make it worse look at the reply from their complaince team when I emailed them offering collaboration and proposing to produce any documentation they might need to check my behaviour was legal and legit:

Hello,
There’s no need for submitting any further documentation. Your account will remain blocked, consequently our services are no longer available to you.
Regards,
-the bunq compliance team

Great customer support, isn’t it?
-E-

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#20

Their response is infuriating!!

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